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 Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea

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Seri
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PostSubject: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:51 pm

Roy has an idea that can cut out most of the corruption costs for the county. Okay. Go for it Roy.

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Dughall



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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:11 am

I'm very curious. :-)
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Thomas MacSpr



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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:00 pm

Am I the only one wondering why a non-councilman of Ayr is being giving access to these halls?
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:04 pm

Sometimes to be the best we have to include the rest.

Remember we're working for Ayr, and if other citizens of Scotland can help with this I don't see why they shouldn't. Personally I find all opinions and views helpful (Doesn't mean I'll always follow them - but the differing views are good to have).
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Thomas MacSpr



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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:35 pm

Sure, but considering Roy happens to be on Glasgow council at the moment, and in the middle of all this trouble between the Glasgow folk, do you lot really think it's wise to invite him in?

...Seriously? lmao
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:23 pm

*grumbles* Like I don't have enough stuff to do already.


I've pitched this in Galloway recently now I'm going to pitch it in Ayr. Needless to say, it's probably not original (it's also not popular), but I'm bringing it up as an issue again.


In a nutshell, all towns in the county would be flipped Independent for X amount of days out of a Y block of time. i.e. 6 days indi out 7


Gasp! Shock! We can't! We mustn't! But could we... ? No, it's forbidden. To even think about it, it is too much.


But perhaps we should think about it.


Consider this: The county must tax to survive on a day-to-day basis. Most of the money collected by taxes should end up going against the debt indirectly or for essential county services. Fodder for animals, for example, should be the primary loss of liquid assets. It makes the county money but it requires funds that have to be secured from outside the county treasury else the system breaks down. A total pain in the behind!


You do celebrations to keep prestige up. Again, money that has to be secured from outside the county treasury for commodities that get tossed into a black hole. More money denied that can't even be used for anything else!


With a daily corruption loss of roughly 200 pounds on the county level, finances suck! Taxing the citizens to earn that money back means 5-10p per field, and collect a county average of 19p per person JUST to combat the corruption and not slip further into debt. If you taxed higher you'd get Glasgow's current situation. No wonder it's impossible to get the county out of the red.


But suffering through a very MILD inconvenience, the county doesn't lose that money every day. Instead it can start to see real gains, and coupled with active trading and production, Ayr can realistically look forward to the day when it can be debt free. And it all starts by saving around 4k/month on corruption.


Before you go thinking about the HOW, consider the WHY. I've only presented the bare bones; the foundation, so to speak, for you as councilors to build upon. How you choose to proceed is completely up to you. Here's a short list of pros and cons you'll encounter.

Cons:
    Towns lose access to the University and Bailiwick
    Ranchers will be unable to buy animals except on specific days
    Restricted uni access will annoy level 3s
    Likely face moderate to high level of opposition from citizenry



Pros:
    Treasury not depleted to excess because of county corruption
    Every town will have an army for added protection
    With university 'closed' more mine workers
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:47 pm

Thomas MacSpr wrote:
Am I the only one wondering why a non-councilman of Ayr is being giving access to these halls?
I went ahead and made a public hall and private hall. I love you

So if you want something in private you should go post it there.

About the idea. I only have an issue cuz I'm not sure people would go for it. If people will DO IT, then it's a great idea. I love cutting costs. Razz I guess each town would need to vote on if they want it or not.

Ayr can't be indie so . . . .

Maybe we could assign Ayr as the MEAT capital and have towns like Largs import their pork products?

Muirkirk is just full of pigs. They are overflowing. Aren't you Rems? Well, you were. silent

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Dughall



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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:33 pm

It's an interesting idea, however the very real costs involved with setting up armies should be taken into account as well. I think it might be easier to raise more taxes. We've got a lot of L3 people around who would be seriously inconvenienced by a structural lack of access to the university. I'd bet good money quite a few would simply move to another county in order to continue their studies. A lack of animals would be a serious problem. It doesn't just mean that animal farmers get the bad end of the stick, it means people who produce goods for animal farmers won;t get to sell their goods either. People who rely on products from animal farms for their professions will be in serious trouble as well. It's an interesting idea, but the costs aren't quite as low as projected and the consequences seem much more severe to me as well.

Taxes are there to keep the county alive. I say we use them.
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:26 am

Dughall wrote:
It's an interesting idea, however the very real costs involved with setting up armies should be taken into account as well. I think it might be easier to raise more taxes. We've got a lot of L3 people around who would be seriously inconvenienced by a structural lack of access to the university. I'd bet good money quite a few would simply move to another county in order to continue their studies. A lack of animals would be a serious problem. It doesn't just mean that animal farmers get the bad end of the stick, it means people who produce goods for animal farmers won;t get to sell their goods either. People who rely on products from animal farms for their professions will be in serious trouble as well. It's an interesting idea, but the costs aren't quite as low as projected and the consequences seem much more severe to me as well.

Taxes are there to keep the county alive. I say we use them.

Yes it is easier to raise more taxes, however you cannot guarantee everyone will pay. The bi-weekly taxation required of a citizen of Ayr just to compensate for corruption is 18.30 pounds. This does not include costs incurred because of:

    Hiring for Statepoints
    Goods for Celebration (prestige bonus)
    Recruiting Marshals
    and Miscellaneous Expenditures



To offset the operating cost of the county, you receive funds from animal sales and get a modest networth boost from the mines - the difference HAS to be made up in other sectors, like trading and taxation.

The cost of raising a flag is approximately 560 pounds. For just a single town that's the cost of 11 days of corruption. From 12 days onwards it is ALL profit as the initial investment is returned. Even paying the army commander a generous daily wage still saves considerable money, and the money is going to a real person and NOT destroyed to corruption - that's more money in the system to be used to keep the markets moving.


Of course any level 3 with the Captain's seat can raise a flag for free - this presents another unique opportunity for any army/state way level 3 trying to get to level 4. If there's only one election list, arranging the flags is easy; if there are two lists you put your commanders high on the list, and when they get their army they resign their seat, giving it to the next person on their list.


Now, if you think people will move because of the moderate inconvenience of living in an independent town, it is nothing compared to the damage of constant taxation. When people will see the clear difference in the treasury, when they see those army flags defending their town, they'll forget about everything else. And most of all, the people will appreciate that you're actually doing something to solve the problem that won't break their backs.

The choice I'm offering is simple: you can tax 5.00/week and prevent most of it from being lost to the system forever or you can tax 10/week and throw it away to corruption.
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Thomas MacSpr



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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:35 am

No offense Roy, but this just sounds bonkers.

I say we just raise taxes, Jah knows they'd rather that than all o' this/
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Dughall



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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:40 am

You cannot raise a flag for free as a cpatain. You still have to pay for the points. However, that's simply a question of an investment. The main gripe I have with this scheme is the lack of animals. As for people who do not pay their taxes: that's where prosecution comes in. If you think we can convince people to turn every town indy, we could just as easily convince them to pay taxes. Especially when the very real consequences of no university access and no animals becomes clear. Last but not least, wood would become a big issue as well. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the suggestion, but you are ignoring glaring issues with this scheme. They need to be adressed.
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:08 pm

I agree with Tommie and Dughall. Flipping towns continually would create way too much instability as well as be a major headache. Reasonable, perhaps graduated (meaning implemented gradually, consistently over time) taxes seems ...well, more reasonable. Look at what Bare's doing in Glasgow - he's waking his citizens up to the fact that they can't expect a handful of people to constantly carry the county, that everyone must contribute their fair share. If all three counties are taxing reasonably and consistently, it shouldn't be a problem for any single county.
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:51 pm

The only problems I forsee are:

1) Change in animal buying
2) Inability to use the CF

I use the CF constantly to sell wood. However I might be able to sell it using grants. As for the university, people can travel to study. Studying is not essential to people's daily lives like work income is.

I am not sure if the rotation is doable. However if people knew that they could only buy pigs on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday I suspect they would just change their schedule to include that. A mayor's message with details is easy to send.

I would prefer that people only buy their pigs on certain days. It makes them fallow their field, which I am already asking for.

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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:51 am

You cannot grant people in another county - or an independant town. We'd need quite a few people with carts to distribute anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:59 pm

The county would grant the mayor or a designated subordinate when the town is flipped back to the county, per the schedule. All the mayor has to do is plan accordingly with help from the TM to secure the appropriate resources. There would hardly be any deviation from how (I hope) the county and towns cooperate already; when I was mayor I asked for enough wood and iron to last, what I hoped, would be at least a week.

Same goes with the CF - goods can be placed whenever and purchased later. Yes you lose the convenience of near-instant transactions, but again, at what price does that convenience come for the county?

The only real issues that cannot be worked around are the disruption to both animal fields and the university. Everything else that you see as a problem, isn't a problem so much as an inconvenience. You should be looking for solutions, not more more problems. If we spent all our time sweating about the details we'd lose track of the objective - to Kill the County Debt.

And would this kill the debt? Not all by itself, but it would pry the beasts fangs from your neck and stop it from bleeding you dry. And that's the point I'm trying to make; corruption doesn't just take money away from the county, it destroys the money. That 200p that is taken out daily can never be reclaimed or used again by the system. Ayr is in a weakened state, if you kill the parasite that is keeping it from recovering then you have a reasonable chance of recovering and getting healthy again.

There's more talk of chopping Scottish towns. Glasgow has it's port nonsense and population advantage; wouldn't it be nice to turn around to the rest of Scotland and show that Ayr is indeed not going down without a fight. And you can do that by making clear, visible gains in net worth and reducing your county deficit. Imagine if you could go to the admin and say, "You can't cut us, this last term on council we made 15,000p. Next council will make even more. We're getting out of debt."

Galloway and Glasgow can't say that; their treasuries keep dropping. Glasgow lost some 50k in it's treasury last term - it's now hovering around -250k. Galloway is somewhere close to -300k. Neither county shows signs of progress. But Galloway won't get the axe because it has too many people. Glasgow won't get the axe because it's made so much progress with it's ports.

What has Ayr done?

I do recall saying this would not be a popular plan and I accept your resistance is the norm. It would be a drastic change and I appreciate and respect your reservations. You don't have to like it, you don't even have to do it. The suggestion has been made and the rest lies with the council.

Good luck, and I'm always around if there are questions.
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:22 am

Well, I like it. I think it's something we should work on. Ayr has a great advantage here. By being the underdog it makes us want to work harder. We might implement such a plan better than the other counties. A plan that Glasgow and Galloway are afraid of trying. Yeah. I said afraid. Fear is the only reason not to implement this.

Roy, how much would we save if we had Muir for example and they were independent Wednesday - Sunday?

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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:52 pm

Okay, in even mentioning this plan I will likely be getting some of you up in arms, but let it be clear that this is done for one purpose alone; To improve the county's monetary wealth. So please, read it in full.

Quote :
Ayr as a county has many costs that must be paid - and so this is an idea for a way of cutting them. Largs, Muirkirk and Girvan will leave the county of Ayr for 11 days out of every 14!!!
Now that I really have your attention let us discuss how we plan to do this, then the conseuquences - both positive and negative.

How - A level 3 in each town, who resides upon the council, will be authorized by the county to create an army. I know that some of you are aware the army has a initial creation cost - of 500 pounds. However, if you sit in the role of captian this cost is waived. My proposal is to have one Level 3 (councillor) from the council to perform this army creation and town flipping. They will each have a turn so that the captain's job may be free. I will personally provide the funds for army points. Because the Commander of the army is unable to work I also propose that he be given the "marshal" wage. Towns will be flipped so that days they are Indy will be: 1,2,3,-,5,6,7,8,-,10,11,12,-,14. Days 4, 9 and 13 each fortnight will be the days on which normal county work can be fully performed. During the time that the towns are within the count they will have the opportunity to trade with the TM, use the CF, Purchase animals, and even attend classes. 3 days per fortnight should allow mayors and animal ranchers to sell/buy the necessary stocks required to last the next 5 days.

Cons - these are in effect all days the towns are indy (11 of the 14):

Animals - Will not be able to be purchased every day
University - The only town in which will be able to attend classes every day will be Ayr city.
County Grants - Will only be able to be issued on the days which the indy towns rejoin the county.
Increased Activity - This idea may be slightly offputting as it shall be a little of an inconvenience to the townsfolk - mainly only ranchers and level 3s.

Pros:

Vastly Decreased Corruption Fees - 66 day's worth of town corruption fees saved every month.
Town Defense - Will be present every day in the form of the armies, who serve the dual purpose of flipping the town and providing a miliita.
Lowered town costs - No need to pay for a militia, as this will be provided by the county's forces.
Increased activity - more work is required, and people have to pay attention.

I believe that this is indeed doable, and that Ayr is in such a unique position as to be able to perform this. We have a population size to warrant extreme measures - a considerable debt - about 268k (less than galloway's debt, which I last heard was almost 300k). But this is a fresh term, and a new chance for Ayr - If we're fed up of always doing the same old stuff, just floundering around being 'yet another county and council who does nothing' then let's change that. Let's do something radical. Only when you live outside the box are you free from it's confines.


Last edited by Ominus on Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Under work - feel free to add :))
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PostSubject: Re: Roy's Corruption Cutting Idea   Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:43 am

Quote :
Towns with armiies have been shown to get more newborns - An army in every town will help Ayr grow again.

The county can secure an initial 30-40 days free from corruption this term, that is approximately 4500-6000 pounds rescued from corruption. The saving will only increase for next term because everything is established, offering approximately 47 days free of corruption, with a total savings of roughly 7000 pounds for the county over the term.

By combining the Army Commander and County Marshall job into one, and by using armies instead of town militia, overlap of defensive duties is streamlined into one entity. Every town will have the means on-hand to defend itself and rapidly respond to every situation.


The Breakdown of Savings and Expenditures on the County Level


Current Level of County-Level Corruption Losses Under Standard Method of Management
14 days/ 50p/day corruption loss = -700 pounds removed from the county coffers, per town, per two weeks.


Finances per Town Over Two Weeks on this Plan
3 days/ 50p/day corruption loss = -150 pounds
14 days wages/ 20p/day for Army Commander = -280 pounds



So, as you can see, their are significant savings to be made though this simple act. And the most important fact is that under the new management system, 2/3 of the expense goes directly to a real person; the money doesn't vanish as it does with the corruption. Money is both saved and at the same time returned to the people.
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